Ethics of Flogging the Ice

Yea about G1 and being recently beaten to death... please don't climb the ice that is weak and still forming. Some of the spots are dry and hard already but stay off the wet stuff, we all want it to form. The longer we stay off it the quicker it comes in. Take the trail up to G2 and top rope that if need be, its not a bad hike.

Very good points about Flogging the Ice. However, I'd like to piont out a difference between Flogging G1 versus other climbs; for example, Mummy IV. G1 is a high water-flow climb. climbing it in early season can be wet and unpleasant; but given cold conditions, it will form up fat eventually, despite any flogging. G1 is a creek. By comparison, Mummy IV is a low-flow, early-season-forming climb. Flogging there can cause later drip-spatter to land at the bottom of the climb without adding any bulk. Without Flogging, I think the water tends to flow down the existing thin ice and provide more 'body' to it later on in the season. Of course, anyone can Flog any ice they like. However, in the long term interest of everyone getting a chance at the most ice possible, perhaps holding off on the thin flow climbs until they are "mature"- have done flowing for the year. I don't see any problem with Flogging the high-flow areas, though- they'll recover in a few very cold days, no matter the Flogging they take! There's no real saying just when climbs are "mature". Obviously, use your own judgement!

The problem i see is that most of the people commiting this "Flogging" are not on this site (i am guessing). Some people just don't understand that when they knock down a thin pillar it could be affecting the climb in the long term (at least on the lower flow climbs). Letting people know here is great, but it's no help to the people who don't know about the site. Maybe a friendly reminder at the ice could help too.

Jim is right. Some climbs like Mummy IV and the Big Sleep can only take so much wacking. A few of us were on the Big Sleep on Friday and it was super brittle. Although it was climbable (WI 6+ R), it was so brittle and unconsolidated that it probably would have destroyed the entire bottom third of the pillar (as happened with Mummy IV some weeks ago). With a little patience, routes like MIV and the Big Sleep will come in more fully allowing ALL of us to climb them, ALL season. Otherwise, one or two parties get an early season tick then it's over till next time. Trust me, NO ONE will get famous or be a hero nor will any one care if someone does them early season and hanging by one arm as they knock the base out - effectively hooping the rest of us. Good routes in the Canadian Rockies are getting whacked off all the time just to make them "harder" - it sucks. Let's not let a covertly competative spirit like that find a home here. There is a reason, Bozeman has one of the best ice climbing "scenes" on the continent. Jim is also right that some routes can "handle" lots of traffic. Of course, no ONE person is appointed to police where or how people climb. Hopefully this forum will be a good place where folks can go to help get a feeling for the routes, how they form and the local ethos. Oh ya, there are a lot more routes to do other than GI and GII. Cheers, JoJo